The Ministry of Reconciliation Part 5.

image34a

Satan.

I have covered some of this subject in my hell blog. It might be worth a read. I think I will get a bit of background before we go onto what is meant to happen to satan.

We would think that the first mention of satan would be in Job or you could say the serpent in the garden in genesis. I would say other wise. Jesus says that He saw satan fall like lightening to the earth. Luke 10:18. If satan is the serpent in genesis 3 then that would put him on earth around the same time as the garden was finished. If we look at the beginning of creation there is a little hint at when satan and his angels might have been cast down to earth.

Genesis 1:2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (UKJV)

The heavens and the earth have just been formed. The earth is without form void and dark. Lets have a look at the words.

Blue letter bible website says:

Form-H8414- Tohuw.

Vain, confusion, wilderness, waste, empty place, primeval place, Place of chaos.

Void- H922- Bohuw.

Void, emptiness, waste, undistinguishable ruin.

Darkness- H2822- Choshek.

Darkness, obscurity, secret place, misery, sorrow, wickedness.

There are some interesting words used for what the earth was like before light was created. Genesis says the light came in the first day. We are not told how long the earth was void for. 2 Peter 3:8 tells us that a thousand years is a day and a day is a thousand years. The earth could have been void for at least a thousand years. With words like wilderness and place of chaos I don’t think its to hard to believe that satan and his angels where on the earth first. All that evil. It would be a place of chaos. May be that’s why he doesn’t seam to like us very much. Because we where given what he would see as his kingdom.

Satan and his angels are on the earth. Adam and Eve sin. Satan is in trouble like the others. There is no mention of satan receiving any kind of authority. We only Think he got it because when Jesus is tempted satan says that he has all authority which was given to him. Luke 4:6. Was it? Jesus never agreed with him that it had been. The Old Testament tells us that everything belongs to the lord. Deuteronomy 10:14, Psalm 89:11, Genesis 14:22, Exodus 9:29, psalm 24:1….. And the list goes on. God gave dominion over all the animals to Adam and Eve. God also told them to subdue the earth. Could it be that satan some how took what was given to Adam and Eve. Satan was never given it. Jesus never said that satan had the authority. But Jesus did call satan the ruler or prince of this world.

Jesus mentions this in 3 scriptures in John. John 12:31, 14:30 and 16:11. Lets have a look.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. (UKJV)

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes, and has nothing in me. (UKJV)

John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (UKJV)

Jesus does recognise satan as the prince or ruler of this world. Lets have a look at the word prince.

Blue letter bible website says:

Prince-G758- archon.

Ruler, prince, chief, magistrate, commander, leader.

He is called the prince of the devils in Matthew, Mark and Luke. Matthew 12:24, Mark 3:22, Luke 11:15.

Magistrate is an interesting word for him. Jesus says that he was a murderer from the beginning and is a liar. John 8:44.

Could it be that because of sin satan had become our ruler or our jailer. That could be why he thought he had all authority.

I think that is enough about satan. Lets see what happens to him.

I am only going to use John for this. I know there is more in the Old and New Testament but this study is already long. I have already shown you the scriptures about satan. He had nothing on Jesus. John 14:30, he is to be cast out. John 12:31. and he is to be judged. In Isaiah 14 it tells us that satan will end up with the kings of old. This suggests to me that the judge here could be separate to be refined. What? I hear you cry. I thought satan was going to the lake of fire. Satan was created good. Why wouldn’t he be refined? That’s what love would do. Philippians 2:9-11 tells us that every knee shall bow and tongues confess that Jesus Christ is lord. That would include satan and his angels. God does not destroy or kill or torment. God is love. Jesus taught us that. There is a scripture, which would go against this theory. Hebrews 2:16. (I could not find any others. Let me know if you know of any and I can take a look.)

The new king James says that Jesus does not give aid to angels. This would suggest that angels are not to be refined. Hence satan will be destroyed. Lets have a look.

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. (UKJV)

I have looked at a few versions and there is a few that agree with the new king James but most of them are similar to the UKJV. What is the context of this verse? If you look at the next verse it becomes clear.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it was essential for him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (UKJV)

It is the nature of humans not angels that Jesus took hold of or became. That is what this verse is saying. Jesus didn’t become an angel to save us but a human. Not sure why the NKJV says it like this. Angels can be refined then.

I want to look into John 12:31. It has some interesting things about it.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. UKJV).

We know what judgement means and prince and world. Lets have a look at cast out.

Blue letter bible website says:

Cast- G1544- Ekballo.

Cast out, bring forth, pull out, send forth, drive out, to send out, be deprived of the power and influence he exercises in the world, to banish from a family, depart with haste, extract,

Out-G1854-exo.

Without, out of doors, forth, strange, away.

I think its save to say that satan has been booted out. Before I continue I would like to look at one more scripture.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. (UKJV)

The word I am interested in is destroy.

Blue letter bible website says:

Destroy-G2673-katargeo.

Do away, abolish, loose, fall, deliver, to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative, to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency. Separated from.

There is more but I think you get the point.

Satan and his angels have been made unemployed. They have no more power or authority. Jesus has the authority now. How is it then that there is still sickness, war, disasters, evil in the world. Satan is a liar. We are told to renew our minds. Romans 12:2, Ephesians 4:23. we are told that our struggles are not against the flesh but against the spiritual hosts and rulers of darkness. Ephesians 6:12.

We fight against the enemy. But how does he still have power? How has he ever had power? Though us. He got Adam and Eve to sin. He got Cain to kill Abel. He got Jesus’ own people to kill their messiah. He is the master of lies and manipulation. Just because he is unemployed doesn’t mean he can’t us our power against us. The power of the tongue is a mighty thing. It has the power of life and death. Proverbs 18:21.

I heard a story about a young boy who was being bullied. His bully told him every day to die. That’s what happened to the boy. He died. It is all around us everyday and we have become blind to it. James warns us of this power and how we should bridle it. James 1:26, 3:5,6,8. Be careful what you say.

I believe that satan convinces us to accept some sufferings. Like some sickness. We feel symptoms. We then talk to our friends and look on the Internet. We then go to a doctor who confirms what we have been thinking and saying. All the time the enemy is continuing to tell you that you are ill. How do we defeat it? Stop it before it starts. What about the symptoms?

Could it be that sickness is a lie? Is it that the enemy convinces us to accept it? We are bombarded all day long with adverts and news stories about sickness and what to do about them. I wonder if we stopped listening to the world about sickness and suffering and listen to God whether we would be healed.

Fear is a powerful weapon but love has conquered fear. Fear has been cast out. 1 John 4:17.

Hosea 4:6 says my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Isaiah 5:13 also says my people have gone into captivity because they have no knowledge. Is it this simple? Drugs give a quick fix but don’t fix the root of the problem. Are we being blinded?

Now I am not a doctor. I am not telling you to stop all your meds and trust for your healing. If you are ill and take drugs to help then keep taking them. Ask God for wisdom. Trust in Him. He will guide you. But don’t let the enemy have His way. We need to be careful and wise. Jesus tells us “Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves”.  Matthew 10:16. We have an enemy who wishes to devour us. Peter tells us to be vigilant. 1 Peter 5:8.

Satan knows all the tricks to get his way. He has been doing it for a very long time. We can overcome him. He is a defeated foe. Do not listen to fear but trust in the Lord for satans time is finished. He is not the ruler anymore. Its time we reminded him of that.

 

Continues in part 6…..

The Ministry of Reconciliation Part 3.

image34a

The Cross.

This is a big part of the study. I am going to spilt it into two parts. The physical and the spiritual. I call the second part the spiritual because I couldn’t think of any other word to describe it.

The physical.

If you are someone who doesn’t like gory details then you might want to skip this part. The reason I put it in is to show how Jesus would have been feeling in His body when He died for us.

He has just been scourged which is normally 39 lashes. Whips and rods would have been used. He carried His cross for some of the way. He also had the crown of thorns on His head, which wouldn’t have been nice. He then arrives at Golgotha. John 19:17. I don’t think I have to go into to much detail on how they put Him on the cross. They nailed Him in the hands and feet. How they did that or where, is debated heavily but I am not interested in that. He is hanging there. He is feeling weak from the blood loss. It’s hard for Him to breathe, as He can’t support His weight very well. Having to decide between the pain in His hands or His feet so He can breathe. Adrenaline is probably helping but I would imagine He is still in a lot of pain. He injures this for 6 hours. The different gospels tell us the things He says. What I realised was He probably didn’t have the breath to say much at all. Slowly suffocating it would have been hard to speak. At the end of the 6 hours He says, “it is finished” and dies. For more details you could look it up or watch the passion. Watching it is harder than reading about it I have found. But it does give you a picture of what Jesus was willing to do for us.

Because of the Passover celebrations the Jews ask the Romans to break the legs of the criminals so they will die quicker. I always thought it was the Romans who did it. But it was the Jews. They get to Jesus and see He is dead already but to make sure they piece His side with a spear. When they do blood and water comes out. This shows them that Jesus is dead.

I have looked to see if there was any prophetic reason for this. 1 john 5:7 says there are three witness’s on the earth. Blood and water being two of them. Being pieced was mentioned in Zechariah 12:10. I haven’t come to any real conclusions on this. It is mentioned in the Old Testament so there’s another scripture fulfilled.

There are two other things, which happens when Jesus dies. The Veil of the temple was torn and the dead saints where raised and went into the city. These are recorded in Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45. There are other things like the casting of lots etc but I wanted to look at these two as there is a spiritual side to them as well.

The Veil.

The Veil was in the temple. It was in the Holy of Hollies. It was meant to hide God from sinful man. Only the priests after giving blood could enter. Exodus 26 gives a lot of detail about the Veil. The ark was put behind the Veil. It was where the presence of God was meant to be and the Veil hid Him from the world.

When Jesus died the Veil was torn from top to bottom. Matthew 27:51. I will look into the spiritual side of this in the next section.

The Dead saints.

Matthew is the only gospel that talks about this.

Matthew 27:52-54. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. (UKJV)

This happened just after Jesus died and the Veil was torn. Jesus in John talks about speaking with the dead. Could this be linked to those scriptures? Clearly the living and the dead felt the power of Jesus’ death. I will look at the spiritual side of this in the next section.

Jesus is taken down and laid in a tomb. Three days later He rises again.

The spiritual. 

I think to understand this better I will break it down into parts. It is important to know what Jesus did on the cross. More from a spiritual point of view than a physical.

What happened? Why was it so important? Lets have a look.

Sin Cleansed not paid for. 

I always thought that Jesus paid for our sins. That’s what I was taught in church. There was a ransom to be paid. The thing is whom did Jesus pay. Was it God? Was it satan? Was it us? In my studies of the Septuagint and other versions what I found was it was none of them.

Jesus was cleansed of sin. He didn’t pay anyone. Isaiah 53 from the Septuagint tells us this. It says in verse 10 that the lord was pleased to cleanse Him from His blow. It also says in verse 11,12 that Jesus bore our sins. Sin was put into Jesus so that God could cleanse Him from our sin as far as the east is from the west. Psalms 103:12. So that sin was no more. We also know that He took a beating for our sin. It took an eternal being in human form to be able to do this. Jesus was pure and clean but was made sin so we could be made righteous. Romans 5:17-19. Ultimately so that we could know the Father and His Son and receive His spirit.

The only scripture I could find where it says that Jesus was a ransom for us was these:

Matthew 20:28, Mark10:45, What does this word mean?

Blue letter bible website says:

Ransom lytron G3089.

Ransom, price for redeeming, paid for slaves, captives, to liberate many from misery and penalty of their sins.

When we sin we become a slave to it if we do it for long enough. Drinking, gambling, sex…. The list goes on. What happens when we sin? Some of us feel guilty, ashamed maybe even worthless. What about how it affects our relationship with God. We wouldn’t feel worthy to be in His presence. We probably would find it hard to talk to Him. We might even be afraid of Him. A lot like Adam in the garden.

Who tells us that we are all these things? The enemy. You might think its your inner voice bashing you over the head with “your not worthy”. Some of that might be true. I think it’s the enemy. They don’t want you having a relationship with God so they first convince you to do the sin then convict you of it after and so the circle continues.

What has this to do with paying a ransom? Jesus and His Father with Holy Spirit wanted to make a way where sin was not a problem. They made it possible that the enemy couldn’t use sin against us to separate us from them. Its not that Jesus paid anyone. It’s that God cleansed the sin. John the Baptist tells us in the beginning of John that Jesus came to take away the sin of the world. John 1:29. There is now no sin. What? So I can go and do what I like and there are no consequences. No you cant. From Gods point of view there is no consequences but from yours there will be. If you drink alcohol all the time you will lose friends and in the end die. As Paul would say the wages of sin are death. Romans 6:23. There are earthy consequences to sin but as far as God is concerned you have been cleansed. You can come to Him whenever you like. Do we need to repent then? I am not sure. I think Gods love is so huge that it can cover all sin. Proverbs 10:12. Maybe it’s that it makes us feel better. I don’t think we need to do it but if it helps with our relationship with God, Jesus and Holy Spirit then do it.

Death where is your sting.

Paul tells us that the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. If sin is no more then where does that leave death? Is death a lie, which satan uses to destroy us?

I wanted to have a look at death and what Jesus did when He died and raised again. What effect did Jesus have when He died on the cross?

I had a look in the Old Testament first to see if it had any thing to say. This is what I found.

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD has spoken it. (UKJV)

Hosea 13:14 I will deliver them out of the hand of death. I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy death. (DRA)

He will swallow up death. That’s good. I think Isaiah is talking about Jesus here. It also mentions victory. That would suggest that a battle was won. We know that Jesus made an open show of the enemy. Colossians 2:15. Paul tells us about death having no sting. 1 Corinthians 15:55. This must mean that Jesus has beaten death and overcome it. Jesus tells Peter that the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18. I wonder what the word Hades means in this scripture? Lets have a look.

The blue letter bible websites says:

Hades- G86

Hell, Grave, Death, the place (state) of departed souls.

This is the same word used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:55. From what this says it’s the place not the act. What I mean is the resting place not the physical thing that happens to our bodies when we die.

Hosea says that we will be delivered out of the hand of death. I choose the DRA translation because it’s the closet to the Septuagint. The DRA means Douay-Rheims. Death in this verse is the place not the act. In my Hell blog I talked about the place in the Old Testament. It is a place of sleep from what I understand of the scriptures. I think also it’s a place where man was separated from God. I think that Jesus made it possible for us to be with Him and His Father by over coming death. Paul tells us that all died in Adam but all are made alive in Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:22. Does this mean that when anyone dies they are made alive? I have seen a lot of near death experience videos on you tube. Most of them talk about a bright light or tunnel and about seeing Jesus or God. Most of them are not Christians. Does this mean that all are saved? We will look into that later.

The Old Testament says that we will be delivered from the place of Hades/death. That God will deliver us. What about Jesus? What was His thoughts on the subject?

I have already mentioned what Jesus said in Matthew. I thought I would see what Jesus says about it in John. It is very interesting what He says. John 5:24, 8:51,52, 11:25,26.

Jesus tells us that if we keep His commandments and hear His words we have passed from death into life. Jesus commandment is to love one another and love God and Him. Jesus gives the impression that if you believe in Him we will not taste death. In john 5:24 and 8:51,52 He hints at this. Lets have a look at John 8:51,52.

John 8:51,52 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that you have a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and you says, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. (UKJV)

The Jews couldn’t believe what He was saying. They even said what He said in a different way to make sure they understood what Jesus meant. Jesus says see. They say taste. Lets have a look.

Blue letter bible says:

See- Theoreo-G2334

See, behold, perceive, consider, look on, look at, experience.

Taste- Geuomai-G1089

Taste, eat, to try, partake of, to feel, experience.

The two words are similar. What is Jesus response to their question? If you read on the Jews are trying to find out whom He thinks He is. That is when Jesus says, “Before Abraham was I AM” John 8:58. He was calling Himself God. Which in a way answered their question. But they where so angry with Him for saying this that they tried to stone Him.

What about the translation of the word death here?

Blue letter Bible website says:

Death. Thanatos-G2288

Death, deadly, the death of the body, the separation of the soul and the body.

Jesus was saying that if you follow His commandments and believe you will never taste death. This points to the physical act. Is there more?

Jesus hints at this again when He talks to Martha about her brother.

John 11:22-26. But I know, that even now, whatsoever you will ask of God, God will give it you. Jesus says unto her, Your brother shall rise again. Martha says unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Believe you this? (UKJV)

Lets look at the words for dead and die.

Blue letter bible website says:

Die. Apothnesko-G599

Die, be dead, be at the point of death, lie a dying, be slain, of the natural death of man, to perish by means of something.

Martha knows that Jesus can do something but isn’t sure what. She, like us mentions the last day. The day when all shall rise. She is thinking of a time in the future. The same question I have now. Jesus answers her by saying that He is the life and that her brother will be raised this very day. I don’t think like the Jews that she understands this. Jesus says, “Whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die”.  This is similar to what He said to the Jews earlier when He said see and they said taste. I believe that Jesus is saying that if we follow His commandments and believe His words we will not taste death.

I decided to have a look in the Old Testament for any mention of this. That’s when I found this.

Isaiah 65:21,22 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. (UKJV)

The days of a tree? That can be a long time. Long enjoy their works. Could this be pointing to living a long and abundant life. It could be. Then again some people will say Jesus is talking about after He returns to restore all things. Or that it’s when we go to heaven and live eternally with Him and the Father. Could it be that we are meant to live longer but are blinded by the enemy? This does require more study and I think Holy Spirit is trying to show me something. I will leave it here for you to think about.

We have seen that Jesus has overcome death and delivered us from it. Does that mean for now or the future? Does it mean that all will be saved and see Jesus when they die? These are questions that I am still asking. What I can say is Jesus has defeated death and sin. They no longer have power over us. He has the victory. What this means for us now I hope to find out.

Continues in Part 4….

What I found on the road to Hell.

Having been a Christian all my life, the biggest questions I have always struggled with is “what is Hell? Why is it there? Who will end up there? Why did God make it in the first place? Etc.

Armed with these questions I decided to do a study on Hell and this is what I found.

All of the information I found was on the Internet and I will provide links at the end of the study. I used the online blue letter bible website as well as a Septuagint website. Due to copyright I have had to use public domain bibles. I will put which ones at the end of each scripture. My normal study bible is the New King James. The versions I use on here will be the closest to the New King James that I can find. I also use a bible app on my android tablet. It is very good for doing searches. The app is called Quick Bible.

This is what I believed about Hell.

It is a place where bad people go to be tormented for all eternity when they die. For example, Hitler is in hell now being tormented by evil spirits or satan for ever. If you are bad or don’t believe in Jesus then you will end up there. There is also the possibility that if you become a lukewarm Christian or backslide (turn from God) then that means you could end up in hell with the rest of the nasty people. Nice.

With that in mind let’s start our journey.

What the world believes about Hell? 

I had a look in Google search. Wikipedia was the first result.

Wikipedia goes into more detail than I did but it is very similar. ft1.

Wikipedia explains in detail the different views and theologies about hell and what people think. It explains where the name came from and what religion, mythology and folklore think about the subject. It is a lengthy article, too long for my little blog. If you are interested in more details check it out. Just type hell into the Google search and it’s the first result, like I said.

Next results were a band, a pizza place and a Facebook page!

I had a look at Webster’s definition and it was similar to what I said. ft2.

There are many views on hell that other religions have but I didn’t want to do them any injustice by trying to explain them in a few short lines. For more information on what religions think about the subject the best way would be to ask someone from one of those religions or you could Google it but I think asking would be better.

I would say that from what I have found, the worldview of hell is similar to what I said I used to believe.

What most Christians believe about Hell.

 I saw this video and I think it sums up what most Christians believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACqRcxV7Cy8

It’s a good video because it doesn’t just show what Christians believe but also what other views are out there.

I think I can say that most Christians are taught that hell is real. (I say most because I know that there are some Christians who don’t believe in hell.) It is a place where sin and evil is punished and that God created it and that is where all evil will end up whether demon or human.

Part 1: Hell. What the Old Testament has to say?

For this part we will look into what the Old Testament has to say as this is before Jesus died.

I decided to look at four words that might tell me about hell. Hell, grave, pit and sheol.

Grave.

This gave me the most results but some of them translated as sheol. I decided to stick to the ones that meant grave.

This is the blue letter bible websites translation:

Grave-Strong’s H6900 – qĕbuwrah

grave, burial, burial site

pass part of H6912- Qabar is buried, to bury.

H6913- Qeber is tomb, grave from H6912

Example scriptures:

Gen 35:20-And Jacob set a pillar on her grave, which is the pillar of Rachel’s grave to this day. (UKJV)H6900

Gen 50:5-My father made me swear, saying, Lo, I die: in my grave which I have dug for me in the land of Canaan, there shall you bury me. Now therefore let me go up, I pray you, and bury my father, and I will come again. (UKJV) H6913

Eze 32:23-Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living. (UKJV) H6912

Grave in this context is the physical burying of the body. The same as what we do today.

Pit/Sheol.

Pit is also translated as sheol. I will stick to the ones about pit.

The Blue letter bible website translates it as:

Pit Strong’s H953 – bowr

pit, well, cistern, fountain

Example scriptures:

Psalm 30:3 O Lord, You brought my soul up from the grave;

You have kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.(UKJV)

Isaiah 24: 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit.(UKJV)

It seems to me that the sheol references are a lot like the grave. A physical hole that you go down into.

Hell/Sheol

Hell is translated as sheol in every case. When I looked in my study bible there was a little number and in the margin it said “or sheol.”

The King James version has sheol translated as hell so there are more results. The New King James translates half of them as sheol and the rest as hell. Why? I don’t know.

The blue letter bible website translates it as:

Hell Strong’s H7585 – shĕ’owl

sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit

Example Scriptures:

Psalm 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and Let them go down quick into hell, For wickedness is in their dwellings and among them. (UKJV)

Prov 9:18 But he knows not that the dead are there, and that her guest are in the depths of hell. (UKJV)

So far it seams to be like grave and pit.

As I continued to research I found some interesting scriptures.

There are probably more accounts of sheol in the Old Testament but these were the ones that caught my interest.

1: The story of Saul and the medium.

Saul is in trouble and he needs to talk to God for help. But he doesn’t have any success. Even though mediums are under threat of death by Saul he goes to one to ask help from the now deceased Samuel. The woman sees who he is but Saul promises no harm will come to her. He asks her what she sees and this is what she says.

1 Sam 28:13,14,15 “I saw gods ascending out of the earth.” “An old man comes up, and he is covered with a mantle.” What Samuel says:“Why have you disquieted me, to bring me up?” (UKJV)

Samuel is coming up out of the earth and still has the mantle on him and he is still old. He also mentions about being disquieted and being brought up.Saul tells of his problems. Samuel then tells Saul what is going to happen to him and his sons. This is what he says:

1 Sam 28:16-19

16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then do you ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from you, and is become your enemy? 28:17 And the LORD has done to him, as he spoke by me: for the LORD has rent the kingdom out of your hand, and given it to your neighbour, even to David: 28:18 Because you obeyed not the voice of the LORD, nor executed his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore has the LORD done this thing unto you this day. 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines: and tomorrow shall you and your sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. (UKJV)

God has made Saul His enemy because he didn’t obey Him. What happens to Saul and his sons? Samuel says, “You and your sons will be with me”.

Interesting. Saul and his sons will be with Samuel the prophet who still has God’s mantle even though Saul is God’s enemy. Does this mean they will go to sleep until the judgment?

The story continues with Saul being afraid, then going into battle and dying with his sons. There is no further mention of what happens to Saul’s spirit. It doesn’t say that he is tormented for his crimes for eternity.

2: God in Sheol?

If Samuel retained his mantle in sheol does this mean that God is there?

PS 139:7,8 Where shall I go from your spirit? or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there (UKJV)

David seams to think so. God in Hell?

3: No work in the grave.

I found this interesting as it talks about doing nothing in the grave.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 and 10

9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.9:10Whatsoever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, where you go. (UKJV)

This book was meant to be wisdom from Solomon. I find this interesting because he is talking about the dead. The dead know nothing, no reward, no share in anything done under the sun, no love, hatred or envy. I get the impression he is talking about them not being on the earth anymore so they can’t partake in what the living do. No work, or device etc. could this point to being in a kind of sleep?

4: The trees of Eden go down to hell.

This is in Ezekiel 31. It’s very interesting as I thought Eden retained it’s trees and was hidden on earth some where. Let’s have a look. 

Ezekiel is told to speak to Pharaoh about what has happened and what is about to happen. He says how the trees of Egypt are better than Eden.

Ezekiel 31:8,9 nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty,so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. (UKJV)

He talks of how good and abundant the land was. That’s the good stuff. Because of their wickedness Egypt pays. God turns it into a desert, as we will see.

Ezekiel 31:15-18. 15 Thus says the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him. 16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. 17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen. 18 To whom are you thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shall you be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: you shall lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, says the Lord GOD. (UKJV)

If you look in the first part, God restrains the rivers and the great waters. If we think about Egypt today it is a desert and this would explain why.

Now we see in verse 16 the trees of Eden have gone into the pit. The hell here is translated as sheol. Those slain by the sword share the fate of the trees of Eden and Egypt. They shall lie with the uncircumcised. Another hint at sleep. But all that drink water were comforted in the depths of the earth. Here it is saying that anything that drinks water is comforted in the depths of the earth, not punished. Wow. He is saying that Egypt will be brought down with the trees of Eden. What sin did the tress of Eden do? Why is there comfort in hell? This doesn’t sound like the fire and brimstone that we have been taught.

UPDATE: 6.7.2016

I felt I needed to put an update in here as my view point has changed. In this scripture there is mention of God judging Egypt and then punishing them. Not long after writing this blog I began to look into Gods wrath. I since believe through the teachings of Jesus mainly in John, that God is a nonviolent God and always has been. Through what we seen in Jesus and as you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. Jesus teaches that God has never been wrathful or violent or has asked for any of His people to be that way. In the light of this I do not believe that Egypt was punished by God. I am working on a new blog to explain this theory. I will put it up soon. Any where in this blog where I have mentioned Gods wrath or punishment I now don’t believe that to be the case.

5: Satan joins the kings in sheol.

This has got to be the most interesting of all. Jesus in Matthew 25 talks about the goats (the wicked) joining satan and his angels in the everlasting fire. But here it seems to be a different story. Isaiah 14 is very interesting and if you look in the Septuagint, which Jesus and the disciples quoted a lot, it reads a bit different to the other versions.

Isaiah 14 reads like it’s the day when Jesus returns and every thing is made right.

The king of Babylon is mentioned but it reads like it’s satan. It talks of the staff of the wicked being broken, the whole earth is at rest and quiet, every one is singing, there is talk of the trees again like in Ezekiel. Verse 9 is where it gets interesting. It speaks of satan and how Sheol is excited about him. All the chiefs and kings are waiting for him. And this is what they say:

9 Hell from beneath is moved for you to meet you at your coming: it stirs up the dead for you, even all the chief ones of the earth; it has raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto you, Are you also become weak as we? are you become like unto us? 11 Your pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of your viols: the worm is spread under you, and the worms cover you. 12 How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!(UKJV)

Verse 12 confirms that it is satan Isaiah is talking about. He goes on to explain what satan wanted. That he basically wanted to be God.  Now we pick it up again in verse 15

15 Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see you shall narrowly look upon you, and consider you, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.(UKJV)

Satan is going to sheol. The kings look at him and wonder, is this the being that caused all the pain and suffering on the earth? Again, in verse 18 sleep is mentioned. This next bit didn’t really make sense to me as up until now we get the impression that satan will be with everyone else in sheol.

19 But you are cast out of your grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass trodden under feet. 20 You shall not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, and slain your people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. (UKJV)

his last bit gives the impression that satan wont be with everyone else but have his own place where he will go. A bit confused by this I decided to check out the Septuagint version. Seeing as Jesus and the disciples quoted it a lot I thought I would see what it had to say.

14:19 But thou shalt be cast forth on the mountains, as a loathed carcase, with many dead who have been pierced with swords, going down to the grave. 14:20 As a garment defiled with blood shall not be pure, so neither shalt thou be pure; because thou hast destroyed my land, and hast slain my people: thou shalt not endure for ever,– [thou] an evil seed.(SEPT)

It’s verse 20 of the UKJV that I am interested in. Where is it in the Septuagint? It’s not there. He is cast from the mountains not from the grave. The Septuagint shows that satan will stay with everyone else just like Jesus says in Matthew 25. Where as the UKJV has satan in his own place. The reason I find this important is because of the refinement process, which I believe everyone goes through when Jesus returns. But I will speak about that in more detail later.

I have some more scriptures that I would like to look at before I conclude this part.

Sodom and Egypt

We know from what I have already talked about that Egypt was punished for her wickedness. Sodom was also destroyed because of her sin. Jesus does mention Sodom in the New Testament but does this mean they are to burn for all eternity. I haven’t found any evidence of hell type torment in the Old Testament yet.

I did do a search on hell and fire and the only scripture that came up was Deuteronomy 32:22. In this scripture God is talking about Israel and how bad they have been. He is saying what He will do to them not the world. My understanding is that it was only the Jews who had the law not the gentiles. Romans 2:14 says:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves (UKJV).

Also in 1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. (UKJV)

We could spend hours on this alone. The reason I put it in was to show that the gentiles were not under law, so in Deuteronomy 32 God is only talking about Israel not the whole world. 

Ok, back to Sodom and Egypt. What will happen to them? Does the bible tell us other than what we already know? The bible does tell us what will happen to them and here are the scriptures. 

Sodom: Ezekiel 16

 Jerusalem is getting a right telling off. God blessed Jerusalem and she turns her back on God and played the harlot. God isn’t happy so He punishes Jerusalem. V35-43.

God then speaks of Samaria being the older sister and Sodom the younger. He says that Jerusalem became more corrupt in her ways. Jerusalem was worse than Sodom and Samaria V46.

Sodom, we all know what happened to that city (Genesis 13), but what about Samaria. There are lots of scriptures that talk about this city. Isaiah speaks about it (10:10) you can also read about it in 1 Kings. Wikipedia is also a good source. ft3 

God goes on to say what Sodom and Samaria did, still calling them sisters. Here’s the interesting part starting from v53:

16:53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of your captives in the midst of them: 16:54 That you may bear your own shame, and may be confounded in all that you have done, in that you are a comfort unto them. 16:55 When your sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then you and your daughters shall return to your former estate(UKJV) 

He will bring back the captives and return them to their former estate. (The translation of estate is antiquity, former state, origin). All of them. The last part is even more interesting:

16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish unto you an everlasting covenant. 16:61 Then you shall remember your ways, and be ashamed, when you shall receive your sisters, your elder and your younger: and I will give them unto you for daughters, but not by your covenant. 16:62 And I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall know that I am the LORD: 16:63 That you may remember, and be confounded, and never open your mouth any more because of your shame, when I am pacified toward you for all that you have done, says the Lord GOD.(UKJV)

In other versions atonement is used instead of pacified. God is going to set up His covenant, provide atonement and give Sodom and Samaria to Jerusalem as daughters. It’s not just Jerusalem that gets restored but Sodom and Samaria as well. How about that!

Egypt: Isaiah 19 

Similar to the start of Ezekiel. Lots of trouble is happening. They have been bad. The rivers will dry up again. Reeds and rushes will wither etc. now for the interesting part: 

19:19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD. 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them. 19:21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it. 19:22 And the LORD shall strike Egypt: he shall strike and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be implored of them, and shall heal them.(UKJV)

Egypt will be healed and saved. They will return to the Lord. This is how the chapter is finished:

19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.(UKJV)

Egypt saved, healed and blessed. The Lord will call them “My people.”

God heals the backslider. 

In many of my searches I came across this one and I thought after learning about Sodom and Egypt it would be a good scripture to put in. 

Isaiah 57:16-19 

16 For I will not contend forever, neither will I be always wroth; for the spirit would faint before me, and the souls that I have made. 17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him; I hid [my face] and was wroth; and he went on backsliding in the way of his heart. 18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. 19 I create the fruit of the lips: Peace, peace, to him that is far off and to him that is near, saith Jehovah; and I will heal him. (ASV)

God will not always be angry and He heals even when we backslide. There are other scriptures that say God woos us, is this really a God who wants to punish us for all eternity?

What God thinks about Fire punishment?

We have seen that God heals even when we backslide, but what does He think about punishment by fire. Considering that the world and some Christians believe that God will punish the unsaved and wicked with eternal fire punishment, I wanted to know the answer. I searched and found this:

Jeremiah 32:32-36

32:32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 32:33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction. 32:34 But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it. 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.(UKJV)

Israel in trouble again? But now they are throwing their children into the valley of Hinnom, which I think is the same as the valley of ge-henna, translated as hell in the New Testament.  I will talk about that later. What does God think? v35.” which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind”. God didn’t even consider this as a possibility let alone a form of punishment. He didn’t command them to do it, so why would He do it to us?

Jesus the refiners fire. 

I thought I would finish with this scripture before I conclude as it talks about fire and also links nicely to the next part.

I did a search on fire and when I saw this scripture it took my breath away. Especially when you read the Septuagint version.

Malachi 3 

It is talking about Jesus. The bit that interested me is this:

behold, he shall come, says the LORD of hosts. 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appears? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap: 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.(UKJV) 

He is like a refiners fire. This is what the Septuagint says: 

v2 for he is coming in as the fire of a furnace and as the herb of fullers. 

Fire of furnace? Where have we heard that before? Matthew 13:42,50. Could it be that Jesus is the everlasting fire, fire of furnace? Could it be that everyone will be refined by Him just like Christians are today? Interesting.

Conclusion of part 1 Hell. What the Old Testament has to say?

It has been and interesting journey. So what have we learnt? The grave, hell, pit and sheol are not places of punishment, but places of comfort and trees. God created it. There is no work or device there or any reward. Looks like a place of sleep.

Saul and his sons joined Samuel there, who still had his mantle. Saul was an enemy of the Lord. But no mention of punishment. We also know that God is there and that satan will end up there.

We now know that God didn’t come up with fire punishment or command it and that it looks like Jesus is the refiners fire.

I had a look to see what the bible says about God creating Hell. There are no specific scriptures that say He did but in Isaiah 42:5 it talks about God creating the heavens and the earth and that, which is on it. Also of course you have Genesis 1 that talks about everything being created. In Colossians 1:16,17 it talks about by Him all things were created. It reads like it’s Jesus Paul is talking about. There are other scriptures but I think it’s safe to say that God created Hell/Sheol/Pit/Grave.

I could not find any scriptures to back the world or some Christian’s view that hell is a place where everyone will be punished for all time with fire. But that’s just the Old Testament. What did Jesus have to say on the subject? Lets have a look.

Part 2 Hell. What Jesus has to say?

In this part of the study I am going to look at what Jesus had to say on the subject. I will not be using revelation, as I don’t believe that revelation should even be in the bible. WHAT? I hear you cry. Please stick with me as I am going to explain my reasons in part 3. I will only be using the four gospels, as I only want to know what Jesus said and not man.

Like in part 1 I will have a look at the place. What the gospels say about hell, hades, grave, tomb and gehenna. Pit is mentioned by Jesus in the gospels (Mt 12:11, Lk14:5) when He talks about a sheep getting away. But there are no other scriptures that say any more about it. Pit is just a pit. Jesus also talks about sleep like in the Old Testament, which I will talk about at the end of this part. Let’s have a look.

Grave/Tomb

The blue letter bible website translates it as:

Grave Strong’s G3419 – mnēmeion

a memorial, monument, a sepulchre, a tomb.

Some of the scriptures translate as tomb. I will stick with the ones that say grave.

Example scriptures:

Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, (UKJV)

Luke 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for all of you are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.(UKJV)

Like in the Old Testament grave is a grave, a physical hole which man dug or tomb where dead bodies are kept.

Tomb

The blue letter bible website translates it as:

Tomb Strong’s G3418 – mnēma

a memorial, monument, a sepulchre, a tomb

From mnaomai G3415 To remind

Example scriptures:

Mark 5:5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.(UKJV)

Luke 8:27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.(UKJV)

Tomb is the same as grave. a physical place where the dead are put.

Hell/Ge-henna 

The blue letter bible website translates it as:

Hell Strong’s G1067 – geenna

hell, hell fire, valley of Hinnom. 

Example scriptures:

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.(UKJV)

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom all of you shall fear: Fear him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.(UKJV)

Hell is translated as ge-henna. It is the valley of hinnom. The same place that Jeremiah spoke of. It’s a place where the garbage was put to burn. Also dead bodies were put in there. We will look into that later.

Hades 

The blue letter bible website translates it as:

Hades Strong’s G86 – hadēs

hell, grave, death. 

The KJV doesn’t translate it as hades but uses hell.

Example scriptures:

Matt 11:23 And you, Capernaum, which are exalted unto heaven, shall be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in you, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. (UKJV)

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.(UKJV)

Hades has gates, it seems to be where the dead go. Like sheol.

Out of all those examples ge-henna has the only reference to fire. All the others talk about a place like sheol where the dead end up. Hades is mentioned when Jesus is talking about judgement but no fire is talked about. Let’s have a look to see what Jesus had to say about ge-henna. 

What Jesus said about Hell/Ge-henna?

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (UKJV)

Jesus has just given the “Blessed” sermon (blessed are the meek etc…). He talks about being salt and light and fulfilling the law. He then starts to talk about being judged for sin. You shall not murder, commit adultery etc. but He adds more to what would be the 10 commandments. In verse 21 He talked about murder but then goes on to say “don’t say you fool.” What is the hell fire that He is talking about?

The Hell here is ge-henna which is the valley of hinnom. The fire is just fire.

Jesus was trying to warn them about the wrath to come and I am not talking about revelation. In the other scriptures where Jesus talks about ge-henna He says about cutting or plucking bits off and out to stop you from sinning. Why ge-henna and why the fire.

In Luke 11:37-51 Jesus goes to a Pharisee house to eat. They ask Jesus why he didn’t wash before He ate. Jesus then really goes to town on them. Telling them how bad they have been for their actions. Jesus then says this:

Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.(UKJV)

What does this mean?

Matthew 23 sheds some more light on the subject.

23:33 All of you serpents, all of you generation of vipers, how can all of you escape the damnation of hell? 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them all of you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall all of you scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom all of you slew between the temple and the altar. 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.(UKJV)

The hell in verse 33 is ge-henna. Jesus is telling them that they will be punished for all the righteous blood since Abel for not listening to His words. Jesus is talking about the attack which will happen to Jerusalem in 70 a.d. Rome sent their army to destroy Jerusalem for it’s rebellion. It was a massacre and many Jews died. Because there were so many bodies the Romans had to throw the bodies into ge-henna to be burnt instead of buried. There’s the fire. Jesus does talk more about this when He tells the disciples about His return. Let’s have a look.

Matthew 24. Jesus is shown the temple. He tells them that it will be destroyed. The disciples ask Him about His return. He tells them about earthquakes and famines, false Christs and wars etc. the Gospel is preached to the ends of the earth then the end will come. Ok where’s the reference to ge-henna?

24:15 When all of you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso reads, let him understand:) 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 24:20 But pray all of you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.(UKJV)

I believe that Daniel saw the 70 a.d. attack not the tribulation. That’s why he felt ill after. ( Dan 11:31, 12:11) The abomination of desolation is an idol of some kind, which is seen to be put in the temple and worshipped instead of God. Roman standards were put in the temple and worshipped. This could have been the abomination Daniel was talking about. In Verse 16 Jesus is telling them to flee to the mountains He continues to tell them just leave and get out of there. Because of what was coming. He also says “no, nor ever shall be”. Which means it will not happen again. Which would indicate that there will be no tribulation that revelation talks about. Similar accounts can be found in Mark 13, Luke 21.

These were all warnings of what was soon going to happen, not the tribulation. Jesus does talk about His return, which I will go into later. He had told the Pharisees that they were going to be judged and He was telling the people to get away from the city so they would not die and end up in ge-henna. Just a thought. Why would Jesus tell them to flee if He was talking about His return? Surly He would of told them not to fear for He was coming back. Just something to think about.

I mention Daniel because He is the one which is used by many to support revelation’s account of the tribulation and Jesus’ return. As I don’t think that revelation should even be in the bible this didn’t make sense until now.

Jesus also talks about the law and the prophets. Matt 5:17, 11:13, Luke 16:16, 24:44. He says how He has come to fulfil them. Luke 16:16 is the one that caught my eye.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John(UKJV)

The reason I mention this is because Jesus said He has fulfilled all of the law and the prophets and the psalms (Luke 24:44) until John. Anyone who quotes Daniel or Isaiah or any of the Old Testament about the end times or to support revelation can’t, because Jesus has already fulfilled those prophecies. When people use Daniel to support revelation it can’t be right because Jesus has already said they are fulfilled.

I have read some of the Day of the Lord prophecies and they do read like they are talking about the 70 a.d. event. Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, Jeremiah 46:10. There are more and worth a look. They could also support revelation.  Why did Jesus mention Daniel’s?  Daniel is the only one that mentions the abomination. None of the others do. The abomination some say could be the anti Christ.

Matthew 23:33 All of you serpents, all of you generation of vipers, how can all of you escape the damnation of hell?

The damnation of ge-henna here was aimed at the Pharisees as we have seen. History shows us that that is where a lot of them ended up. There is lots of information on the 70 a.d. attack. Wikipedia has a good article. ft4 Josephus talks about it as well. These are good articles as well. ft5, ft6.

My belief is Jesus was warning them all to believe Him and stop looking at themselves and trust in Him. To flee from the city or they would end up in ge-henna fire. Ge-henna was the physical valley where the garbage and the dead animals were thrown and the fire was the fire which was never quenched because it continued to burn because of all that was thrown into it, also a physical thing. Let’s see what Jesus had to say about fire.

What Jesus said about Fire?

What does the Blue letter bible website have to say?

Fire Strong’s G4442 – pyr

fire, fiery,  

example scriptures:

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.(UKJV)

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? (UKJV)

It would seem fire is fire.

I had a quick look at fire in the Old Testament and most of the scriptures said that fire was fire. I might do a study on it but for now I just want to know what Jesus thought, as all the references to death in the Old Testament didn’t include fire. The only scripture that talks about hell and fire is Deuteronomy 32:22 which I covered earlier.

Earlier I talked about Jesus being the refiners fire in Mal 3. If that is the case then when Jesus talks about throwing people into the fire is He talking about refining people through Him self? If you become a Christian today then you go through a refining process now. Is it that this process is kept in the next life for those who don’t believe or who are evil? The bible does say that every knee shall bow and tongues confess. Isaiah 45:23, John the Baptist said behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the WORLD. John 1:29. But that is a study for another time.

The fire in the gospels seem mainly to be just fire. Two scriptures could translate as light. Luke 22:55, Mark 14:54. There are two that translate as fire of coals. John 18:18, 21:9. John the Baptist also mentions fire. Matt 3:10,11,12 Luke 3:17. But I am sticking with what Jesus says. Let’s have a look.

We will start with Matthew. These are all the search results from my bible app.

To start with we hear what John has to say. Then Jesus talks about the ge-henna fire, which I have covered already. Matt 5:22.

Jesus in Matt 7:19 talks about bearing good fruit or you will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Jesus talks about bearing fruit and if you are a good tree then you can only bear good fruit. If bad fruit is what you’re bearing then you cant be a good tree. I would think that Jesus could be talking about false teachers and prophets. We can tell them by their fruit. It is the bad trees that are cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 13:30-50 this is the parables of the kingdom. Jesus in some of these parables talks about His return.

Matthew 17:15. There is a boy who is possessed by a demon and he keeps being thrown into the fire. A normal physical fire.

Matthew 18:8,9. This is another ge-henna reference about cutting bits off. Which I have already covered.

Matthew 25:41. This is part of the sheep and goats scripture. I will be looking into it in more detail later.

Mark, Luke and John have similar references. Jesus talks about ge-henna fire, normal fire is mentioned, coals of fire and it goes on. The Matthew scriptures, which I just looked at, are also mentioned in the other gospels. There are however three more, which I would like to look at.

Seasoned with Fire

Mark 9:49. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. 50, Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltiness, wherewith will all of you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another. (UKJV)

Jesus was talking about the ge-henna fire. That they needed not to sin or they would end up in ge-henna. He then adds this verse on to the end. Why? Everyone shall be salted with fire. I had a look on the blue letter bible website to see what it said. This caught my attention. To salt, season with salt, sprinkle with salt. In the Thayer’s Greek lexicon it says “the sacrifice is sprinkled with salt and thus rendered acceptable to God. The grain and burnt offerings were seasoned with salt. Lev 2:13, Ezekiel 43:24

Salt was also used indicating friendship. But in verse 49 Jesus is saying that they will be salted with fire. Could it be salted with Him as the refiners fire? As Thayer’s says the salt made the sacrifice acceptable to God does this mean that everyone through Jesus will be made acceptable to God? Also Jesus is talking about everyone. Not just believers.

Fire from heaven.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, will you that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did? 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, All of you know not what manner of spirit all of you are of. 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.(UKJV)

James and John want to call down fire from heaven to punish the Samaritans but Jesus rebuked them and said He had come to save not destroy. If Jesus wanted to stop James and John from bringing down fire from heaven why would He then be ok with people being eternally tormented in fire? Interesting.

But He wants fire?

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?(UKJV)

Jesus has just been telling parables about His return. In the last scripture Jesus is telling the brothers not to send down fire from heaven but here He wants to do it Him self? His fire is the refiners fire. Could He want to start the refining process so that all are reconciled to the Father?

We have had a look at hell and we have looked at fire. I haven’t found any mention of torment in hell for all eternity yet. Ge-henna was about the 70 a.d. attack. The other scriptures were about the place where the dead are kept, like sheol. But there is one story which Jesus told which on the surface would support the hell fire torment belief. The story of the rich man and Lazarus. Let’s have a look.

The Richman in Hell

You will find the story in Luke 16:19-31

Jesus is in the middle of telling some parables most of which seem to be aimed at the Pharisees. In this story we have a rich man that doesn’t care about the poor or sick. This man also has some brothers who seem to be the same as him. The rich man dies and so does Lazarus. Lazarus goes to be with Abraham but the rich man goes to hell. First thing to notice. Why is Jesus talking about Abraham and not Himself? Why is the rich man not named? If the rich man needs water why does he ask for so little? How can the rich man even talk? These are just a few questions I asked myself, then I realised Jesus was telling a parable, not a real story, and He was aiming it at the Pharisees who I might add He said would enter the kingdom of heaven. WHAT? I hear you cry. Check it out for yourselves.

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them two did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus says unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

“Before you”. That’s what Jesus said. The Pharisees even after their 70 a.d. judgement will end up in heaven.

Wailing and gnashing.

I had to put this in as it is used often as an example of what is happening in Hell today. There are 7 scriptures that mention this phrase. Two say weeping the others say wailing. It’s mainly in Matthew that it’s mentioned with one in Luke. John and Mark do not mention it. Which I think is interesting. According to my research Matthew and Luke share common writings from Mark and something called the q source. This is the common material that Luke and Matthew share but are not in Mark. These scriptures would be part of the q source. Matt 8:12, 13:42, 13:50, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, Luke 13:28. In most of these scriptures Jesus had spoken a parable about the kingdom or about His return before mentioning the wailing and gnashing. It’s the wicked that are wailing and gnashing. I think some of it was aimed at the Pharisees because Jesus says “Lord, Lord open for us, we ate and drank in your presence etc…” what does it mean?

As Christians there are times when we gnash and weep. There maybe something we are going through which is emotionally hard so we weep or something that makes us angry so we gnash. If what I think is correct, if Jesus refines the wicked after they die then there would be wailing and gnashing. To be physically in front of Jesus and have to deal with what you have done. I think that would be the worst kind of Hell there could ever be. It also could be that Jesus is talking about the Jews response to the 70 a.d. attack. Seeing all that destruction would cause you to wail and gnash. I don’t think this is Jesus talking about eternal punishment. I think He would have made it clearer than that.

But Sleeping.

Like in the Old Testament Jesus mentions sleep whenever He was talking about someone who had died.

The blue letter bible website translates it as:

Sleep Strong’s G2518 – katheudō

also G2837- koimaō

to fall asleep, to be dead, drop off to sleep.

Example scriptures:

Matt 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleeps. And they laughed him to scorn.(UKJV)

Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, (UKJV)

When sleep is mentioned it would seem that when you die you would just sleep until woken. Sleep is Sleep. If we consider the Old Testament as well it would make sense. No thought or device or work. Like sleep.

The scripture references just say that. They’re not dead but sleeping. When Jesus talks to the disciples about Lazarus they reply as if he is physically sleeping and not dead. “For if he sleeps he will get well.” Jesus having been there should know what happens when people die. But what about now? Jesus told the thief that he would be with Him in paradise today. Luke 23:43. Does that mean it’s different now Jesus has died. Could it be that if you’re a Christian you go to be with Jesus now and if you’re not you go to sleep. I am not sure.

Conclusion of part 2 Hell. What Jesus has to say? 

What have we learnt?

Grave and tomb are the physical places that the body ends up in. Hades is the Greek sheol where the spirit goes and it has gates. Hell is really ge-henna which is a valley that in Jeremiah’s time was where babies were sacrificed and is the place that Jesus warns against. Jesus warns them about the 70 a.d. event that Daniel spoke of. Jesus warns the disciples to flee and it is a punishment for all the righteous blood from Abel on the Pharisees. But they still will be in heaven. Fire is fire unless it’s Jesus fire which refines not hurts. Everyone will be seasoned or salted with it. Jesus didn’t want any fire from heaven and we know that as you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. John 14:9

The rich man and Lazarus story is just to warn the Pharisees to change their ways. Gnashing and wailing could be a response to Jesus’ refinement or the 70 a.d. event.  Do we sleep when we die? We have also seen that Jesus tells us that there will not be a tribulation as bad as the 70 a.d. event ever again. Matt 24:21.

Again I haven’t found anything that says about eternal punishment in fire, burning for your sins. Jesus does mention everlasting fires and furnace of fires but He doesn’t say that it will include lots of pain for all eternity. There are some scriptures which can go either way. But I suppose it depends on what type of God you serve. Is He a God of love who sent part of Himself to undo all that Adam did so He could put himself in all of us? Or is He a God of anger and wrath where only a few chosen get to be with Him and even that has conditions. I know what one I believe.

Part 3 Hell. What’s up with Revelation?

I mentioned earlier that I didn’t think that revelation should be in the bible. I want to take some time and explain how I came to this conclusion. I am not going to tell you to rip the book out of your bible. But I just want you to think about what I am saying. Study and ask Holy Spirit what He thinks.

I have an audio bible, which I listen to all the time. I had gone through the whole bible twice and I felt Holy Spirit wanted me to concentrate on the New Testament only. So I did. The first time I went through I got to revelation and I felt Holy Spirit tell me not to listen to it. So I didn’t. I went through again and the same thing happened. On the third time when I got to revelation Holy Spirit told me to listen to it. So I did. I was shocked at what I heard. So shocked I cried. Yes it was so bad it brought me to tears. How could my loving Jesus do these things and how could my loving Father. I was devastated. It just didn’t sit right with my spirit. Martin Luther also had this problem. ft7. He said that his spirit could not accommodate itself to this book.

This is what Paul advises:

1 Thess 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.(UKJV)

2 Corth 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.(UKJV)

Paul tells us not to just accept everything but to test everything. The early disciples didn’t have the bible as we know it today. They relied on HolySpirit for everything. It seems that we have swapped HolySpirit for the bible. In Acts it tells us about the Bereans. They did just this and they believed. We should also.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.(UKJV)

I thought I would look to see who wrote revelation. I had always thought that it was John. so let’s have a look.

The authors?

In the beginning of revelation it says that John was on the Isle of  Patmos when Jesus turns up. He says he was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day. He hears a voice and turns round to see who is talking to him. The first verse of the scripture says that Jesus’ Angel sent these things to John to share with us. Was it Jesus or the angel? I didn’t even know that Jesus had His own angel?

The book clearly states that it is John that wrote these things. But was it?

This scripture is what puts doubts on which John was writing this book:

Matt 20:21-23

21 And he said unto her, What wouldest thou? She saith unto him, Command that these my two sons may sit, one on thy right hand, and one on thy left hand, in thy kingdom.22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink the cup that I am about to drink? They say unto him, We are able.23 He saith unto them, My cup indeed ye shall drink: but to sit on my right hand, and on [my] left hand, is not mine to give; but [it is for them] for whom it hath been prepared of my Father.(ASV)

“My cup indeed ye shall drink.” Jesus is talking about His death. The sons of Zebedee had asked Jesus if they could sit at His side. In this account their mum asks. But Jesus tells them that they will die a martyr’s death. In Acts James dies. Acts 12:2. But what about John?

I have found it hard to find any record of John being killed in the early years of the church. I had read somewhere that he had been boiled alive but I haven’t been able to find anything about it. Acts 8:14 is the last mention of John. Peter and John had been going around together preaching and seeing healings. Then he just disappears. The John that is spoken of after that is John Mark who is related to Barnabas. It looks like that John goes to Jerusalem to tell on Paul. Paul and Barnabas had a big row and went there separate ways. Paul does mention John as a pillar with Peter and James in Galatians. That was thought to have been written somewhere between the 40s-60s. But John disappears before James dies. It is thought that James died in 44 a.d. If Galatians was written in the early 40s then it could be the sons of thunder that Paul is talking about here in Galatians.

The facts don’t fit. If you read John and then read Revelation they seam to be written in two different styles. John’s book is all about love whereas revelation is about works, law, death, losing your salvation and revenge. Did John even write John?

Who wrote John? 

John never mentions it’s author by name. It always says “the one whom Jesus loves”. Most of the disciples are mentioned in the book. These are the ones that are not:

Simon the zealot, James Jesus’ brother and Matthew. It could be any of them. I am not sure why being mentioned cuts you out as author? When I think about John one of the sons of thunder I don’t think of someone who has loads of love and compassion. Both him and his brother presumed to have the right to sit at Jesus’ side. They also wanted to call down fire from Heaven. When you read John it just doesn’t seem to fit that kind of personality. Will we ever now? Why is this so important? We are told that John the son of Zebedee wrote revelation when he was old. Peter at the end of John asks Jesus if this disciple will die. Jesus replies “if he lives until I come what does it matter”. Because of this people believe that John wrote revelation. The John on Patmos is meant to have been old. Also according to Wikipedia he trained Polycarp who was one of the church fathers. ( Wikipedia is where I have got most of my information).

Who do I think the authors are? 

This is completely based on my opinion. Check it out for yourselves. The sons of Zebedee are mentioned in John. If being mentioned counts you out as author I need not carry on. But I will. Out of the three who are not named I lean towards James. He was the brother of Jesus. He would have been the younger. When Jesus says look after my mum it fits better with me that Mary would have already been related to Him. Not that that really matters. Also, the way Jesus was with Him. It does show a brotherly kind of love than a friend kind of love. Look at the difference between Peter and this disciple. Is Peter resting on Jesus? No. Would a loved blood related brother rest on Jesus? Probably.

What about revelation? It does say that John wrote it. But it has a lot of law and works in it. I think it could have been John Mark, Barnabas’s cousin. Col 4:10. John Mark left Paul and Barnabas to return to Jerusalem. Paul wants to go back to the churches to see how they are doing. Barnabas wants John Mark to come with them but Paul says no. They have a row and go their separate ways. Acts 15. Paul returns to Jerusalem to see James and the elders and they convince him to purify himself. Paul had been told off for preaching against Moses. The purification was interrupted. Acts 21.

Could it be that Paul didn’t like John Mark because of his views on the law? Could John Mark then have gone back to the elders and told them of what Paul was doing?

These are possibilities but having not been there I can’t confirm. Whoever wrote revelation seems to have been a Jew and knew a lot of the Old Testament. It looks like he believed in works and wanted Jesus to come back as a conquering King. Which all the Pharisees wanted? Plus it hadn’t been long after the 70 a.d. attack that revelation was written. Could the book have been to encourage the then persecuted Christians that their King would return soon to conquer the Roman Empire?

Why have I tried to find out who the authors are? What would make revelation more acceptable? John who is meant to be the one Jesus loved writes a book about Jesus telling him how He will return. Out of all the disciples John would be the most credible. There would be no question to it’s contents if he wrote it. Well, it’s like Jesus writing it Himself. But, if it were some unknown writing it then most scholars would not accept it and throw it out like all the other non cannon books. One thing to think about. Why did it take so long to accept revelation into the cannon in the first place? It was written early enough. But it wasn’t put into the bible until 419. ft8. Interesting.

Lets have a look at what revelation says compared to what Jesus taught when He was on the earth.

Revelation Vs Jesus. 

These are just a few examples of the differences between revelation and the 4 gospels.

Losing your salvation. 

Rev 3:15 I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot: I would you were cold or hot. 3:16 So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.(UKJV)

Revelation says because of being luke warm as a christian you will be spewed out of Jesus’ mouth. What did Jesus say about it?

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. 10:30 I and my Father are one.(UKJV)

John writes that not only are we in Jesus’ hand but also the Fathers and no one can pluck you out of those hands. But what if I choose not to stay through luke warmness or Jesus decided to get rid of me?

Hosea 14:4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.(UKJV)

I and my Father are one. This is what God and Jesus say about the subject. Still not enough?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;(UKJV)

John 15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you: continue all of you in my love.(UKJV)

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.(UKJV)

Father draws us. Draw here can be drag off. He drags us to Him. Not sure if it’s kicking and screaming. He is the one that calls us. Why would He do that just to spew us out again? The revelation scripture doesn’t say that they don’t love Jesus but as we have seen even if you backslide God will still heal you. I could go on for a long time quoting scriptures all day.

Remember, I am not talking about non believers but christains. Once you give your life you are sealed. That’s it done deal. No backsies. Once saved always saved.

Later in this chapter Jesus talks about rebuking and chastening those He loves. V19.

I have a problem with this. Here is why:

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed(UKJV)

Isaiah 53:5 But it was for our sins he was wounded, and for our evil doings he was crushed: he took the punishment by which we have peace, and by his wounds we are made well (BBE)

I think the Bible in Basic English translates it the best. “For our evil doings he was crushed, He took the punishment by which we have peace.” Jesus took all the discipline and punishment on Himself so we don’t have to. Punishment is also translated here as discipline. When people say, “God is teaching me a lesson” I think they are wrong. This scripture shows that God doesn’t discipline with a rod anymore. He helps us through our troubles but He doesn’t create them.

Killing the little Children?

Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works (UKJV)

Yep you read it right. Jesus for the sins of their mother is going to kill the innocent children. This was in the second chapter. He is also talking about works. What does Jesus say about children?

Matt 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.(UKJV)

Matt 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.(UKJV)

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. (UKJV)

Jesus clearly tells us to look after children. We also know that God didn’t like it when Jerusalem were sacrificing their children Jeremiah 32:35.

Need I say anymore?

Christian Martyrs.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?(UKJV)

Hold on. Saints asking for revenge? What does Jesus have to say?

Matt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 5:45 That all of you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 5:46 For if all of you love them which love you, what reward have all of you? do not even the publicans the same? 5:47 And if all of you salute your brethren only, what do all of you more than others? do not even the publicans so? 5:48 Be all of you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.(UKJV)

To be perfect we need to love our enemies not ask for revenge. In verse 39 Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek. Luke 6:35 repeat’s this. There is a great example of this in acts 7:60. Steven is being stoned for preaching Jesus. Does he say “avenge me Jesus.” Does he call down fire from heaven like John and James wanted to do and we know how Jesus felt about that. NO he doesn’t he says “ Lord do not charge them with this sin”. WHAT. No avenging? No. It is not the kingdom way to avenge. But what about vengeance is mine says the Lord? The Old Testament is full of scriptures about God’s vengeance. But as we have seen in Isaiah 53:5 Jesus has taken all of that upon Himself. He took all of God’s anger and wrath on the cross. Jesus only mentions the days of vengeance once in Luke 21. But He is talking about the 70 a.d. judgement. Which I have covered already.

What did Jesus say when He was on the cross. You’re all going to get it? I will be avenged. Just you wait you wicked lot My dads going get you. NO this is what He said:

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.(UKJV)

He asked His Father to forgive them not hurt or avenge Him. Jesus wants us to love as He has loved.  He will refine and those who have done wrong will be made accountable for what they have done. Jesus teaches us to love not hate.

Signed by Lucifer.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.(UKJV)

When I first read this I didn’t think much of it. It was only when I was reading Isaiah 14 that I was shocked.

Isaiah 14:12 How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!(UKJV)

Wait. WHAT? Son of the morning. Oh, its in lower case that’s all right. Or is it. Let’s see what the blue letter bible has to say about this.

The blue letter bible website translates it as:

Lucifer Strong’s H1966 – heylel

light- bearer, shining one, morning star,

from H1984 Halal. shining

Lucifer means shining one or bright and he is the son of the morning. Revelation says that Jesus is the bright and morning star. Why? Jesus is saying that He is lucifer or like him. Are we not warned that luicfer is an angel of light? Paul tells us in 2 Corth 11:14,15

2 Corth 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.(UKJV)

And we know that bad trees bring bad fruit. What has the fruit of revelation brought. Fear, division, anger and the list goes on.

Conculsion to Part 3 Hell. What’s up with Revelation?

What have we learnt?

Revelation might not have been written by John from the gospels. Even John might not have been written by John. There are many examples of huge differences between what revelation shows us and what Jesus said when He was on the earth. That it looks like revelation might have been signed by its true author, luicfer. That’s a bold statement but it is how I feel. Remember this is just my opinion. It’s not gospel.

I know that this could cause some offence. If it does then I don’t mean to do that. Check it out for yourselves. Don’t take my word for it. I am writing this because of how it made me feel when I listened to revelation. I cant believe that the loving Father, that sent His son to die for the world, would do all these nasty things not just to the world but also spit out His own. If that’s true then we love Him to save our own skins. Where is free will in that?

his is just a small example of the differences in revelation compared to what Jesus said. Here are some studies that go into more details:

http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html

http://www.revelation-101.org/

Here are some good video’s that I found:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WyB7YN8VVY&app=desktop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULBlqqJuUsE

There are more but these are my favourites.

All I can say is check it out for yourselves. Look at what Jesus said. Read the four gospels then read revelation. That’s what I did.

If revelation is wrong then what did Jesus say about His return. Let’s have a look.

Part 4 Hell. What Jesus says about His return. 

We are nearing the end of our journey. After my revelation about revelation I felt Holy Spirit tell me to see what Jesus said about His return.

I did wonder if the Old Testament said anything about His second coming. I know there are lots of scriptures that tell us about His life and death on the earth. isaiah 53, psalm 22 etc. Was there any that told about His second coming? There are lots. To many for me to fit into my blog but I decided to share two of my favorites.

Isaiah 2:4 And he will be the judge between the nations, and the peoples will be ruled by his decisions: and their swords will be turned into plough-blades, and their spears into vine-knives: no longer will the nations be turning their swords against one another, and the knowledge of war will be gone for ever.(BBE)

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 2:30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD has said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. (UKJV)

Isaiah is good because it shows the nations being judged and that peace will be in the land. The knowledge of war will be gone. Great.

Joel is also good as it talks about God pouring His Spirit out on ALL flesh. Not just the chosen but all. I like the Septuagint’s version of verse 31:

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and glorious day of the Lord come.(SEPT)

If you look at the niv or the kjv it will not say that. It says terrible or dreadful. This is why I look on the blue letter bible website and the Septuagint. Jesus and His disciples quoted the Septuagint all the time. I am not saying that you make it your main Old Testament bible. But it is worth looking into for more details.

That’s a little look into the Old Testament but what about what Jesus said?

There are many scriptures about Jesus’ return.  You have the parables like the Tares and the dragnet. There is also when Jesus has finished talking about the ge-henna punishment. But I want to concentrate on one in particular. This one I believe gives the most information about what will happen on that great day to the unbelievers. But before we look at that I want to just look at some other scriptures to build up to the main event as it were.

What happens to the Elect/Christians?

I am talking about those who Jesus knows. They have knocked and Jesus has said come on in. I found these scriptures.

Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.(UKJV)

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.(UKJV)

John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there all of you may be also. 14:4 And where I go all of you know, and the way all of you know.(UKJV)

The trumpet will sound and all the elect will be gathered together. Which means there will be some in heaven and some on earth. Which supports the theory that Christians go to heaven to be with Jesus when they die. John 14:2-4 also shows this. But where are we gathered? It could be that we will help with the judging. Jesus did tell the 12 that they would sit on 12 thrones judging Israel. Matt 19:28, Luke 22:30. Paul also mentions in 1 Corths 6:3 that we will judge the angels. He does say “gathered from heaven.” That means those in heaven will be taken out. The elect could be with Jesus then when He judges the nations.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.(UKJV)

Matt 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.(UKJV)

John 5:28 Do not be surprised at this: for the time is coming when his voice will come to all who are in the place of the dead, 29 And they will come out; those who have done good, into the new life; and those who have done evil, to be judged. (BBE)

Interesting scriptures. Everyman judged on his works. If they help a little one they will not lose their reward. All who are dead will hear His voice. How can we be judged on our works? All will become clear. Let’s have a look at Matt 25. 31-46

I will go through it a section at a time to make it easier.

Section 1: Jesus returns.

25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats: (UKJV)

As we have already seen Jesus will come back in His glory with the holy angels. See also Matt 24:30, Luke 21:27. He sits on His throne and gathers the nations before Him and separates them. The sheep and the goats. Who are they?

Section 2: The Sheep 

25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, all of you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (UKJV)

Could this be us? Blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom. Sounds like us. It must be right?

25:35 For I was an hungered, and all of you gave me food: I was thirsty, and all of you gave me drink: I was a stranger, and all of you took me in:

25:36 Naked, and all of you clothed me: I was sick, and all of you visited me: I was in prison, and all of you came unto me. (UKJV)

Still Christians right? Read on.

25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we you an hungered, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink? 25:38 When saw we you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you? 25:39 Or when saw we you sick, or in prison, and came unto you? (UKJV)

Ok the righteous. It’s got to be Christians. Let’s continue.

25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as all of you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, all of you have done it unto me. (UKJV)

If we look again at 37 through to 40 what do we see? The righteous who don’t know they are righteous. They are unaware of the deeds they have done for Jesus. Jesus says “for the least of my brethren you have helped you have helped me.” It’s the not knowing which gives the answer. We know from what I said about the elect that they have been gathered from heaven and earth. We also know that Christians or God’s elect know when we give or help someone. Why? Because we have Holy Spirit and the bible prompting us to help others. Here are some example scriptures:

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that all of you mete likewise it shall be measured to you again(UKJV)

Matt 5:42 Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you turn not you away(UKJV)

Matt 6:1 Take heed that all of you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise all of you have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. 6:2 Therefore when you do your alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6:3 But when you do alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand does: 6:4 That your alms may be in secret: and your Father which sees in secret himself shall reward you openly(UKJV)

Jesus tells us to do our good deeds in secret, not to let our left hand know what our right hand is doing. We have been given instructions on how to help the needy. The non-believers have not.

There are many more examples. The fact is if you are a Christian then you know when to help and when you have helped.

I was in my local town. As I was walking into a shop I saw a homeless women across the street and it was raining. I felt Holy Spirit say to me to buy her an umbrella and give it to her. So I did. I knew it was Holy Spirit telling me to do that. How many non-believers hear the same voice but don’t know it’s Jesus that they are helping.

I think I can say that the sheep are not Christians but people that help others. They have good hearts. But they are called righteous? This has caused me some problems but I think I have figured it out. When Jesus died on the cross He wiped out ALL sin, He wiped out ALL curses and healed ALL sickness. Everything that Adam did He put right. We are covered by Jesus’ righteousness. I often think how can Holy Spirit still be in me if I continue to sin. Yes I do repent but sometimes there are sins which I just can’t seem to get rid of. The only conclusion I can come up with is that Holy Spirit can stay because of Jesus’ righteousness not mine. There is no amount of good deeds that I can do which will match or even come close to what Jesus did in His life and on the cross. It is Jesus that makes them righteous. It is a gift like salvation. Romans 5:18,19 talks about this.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.(UKJV)

The many here is really all. I have looked into it because at first it seemed to be a bit confusing. If you just look at verse 18. It says that through Adam all sinned and through Christ all are justified. So the many in verse 19 must be all because the beginning of this verse says many. But Paul has already said that all have been judged. So the many should be all. Ok, got that?

In verse 19 it says that through Jesus’ obedience all will be made righteous. That’s why the sheep are called righteous because of Jesus. It’s not their deeds that make them righteous, it’s Jesus’ blood. Does this mean the wicked goats are righteous too?

Let’s have a look to see what righteous means:

the blue letter bible website says:

righteous Strong’s G1342 – dikaios

just, right, innocent, guiltless, approved of or acceptable of God, holy.

Does this mean that Jesus has made the wicked innocent of their crimes? Or guiltless? What I believe is this. In order for all men to be acceptable to God Jesus had to die. He has given His righteousness to all so we are acceptable to God.

2 Corths 5:21 For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.(UKJV)

How else could non-christians be healed? If all are saved and all are healed. then all must be made righteous and all sins forgiven. This means that Jesus is then able to refine them and get rid of the act of sin through the refiners fire. Mal3. It’s not the man God doesn’t like it’s the sin.

Romans1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;(UKJV)

Paul tells us that it’s not flesh and blood we fight against but spirits Ephesians 6:12. We know from what happened to Judas that he was overtaken by satan. Then after, he was so remorseful that he took his own life. Everyman is given light by Jesus when they come into the world. John 1:9. All things are made through Jesus. John 1:3. which would suggest that all are born good or pure. It’s only the spirits and sin that currupts us as we live our lives. It is this that God doesn’t like and what Jesus has made clean.

Let’s continue.

The sheep then go to be with the Father and are blessed. Jesus had to have a way to judge the good from the bad. As Christians are not being judged how could you bring justice. By works. I think it is more than works. I think it is on the heart. Matt 5:8 talks about the pure in heart. They will see God. There are many other heart scriptures that show how Jesus feels about someone with a good heart. It is through the heart that Jesus will judge.

The sheep and the goats are judged on how they treat others. Those who look after the least of His brethren are taken to heaven and those that don’t go to be refined.

Section 3: The Goats 

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, all of you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:(UKJV)

The wicked will end up in the everlasting fire prepared for satan and his angels. As we saw in Isaiah 14 we know that satan will end up in sheol with the kings of old. Does that mean they will be refined also? All will be reconciled back to God. Wow! That’s Huge. Colossians 1:16,19, Ephesians 1:10, Philippians 2:10, but that is a study for another time. Let’s continue

25:42 For I was an hungered, and all of you gave me no food: I was thirsty, and all of you gave me no drink: 25:43 I was a stranger, and all of you took me not in: naked, and all of you clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and all of you visited me not.(UKJV)

Same as the sheep. Jesus tells them when they could have helped but they didn’t.

25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we you an hungered, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto you?(UKJV)

Like the sheep they ask when?

25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as all of you did it not to one of the least of these, all of you did it not to me.(UKJV)

Jesus replies the same.

Section 4: the end result.

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.(UKJV)

The wicked shall be punished forever. Well, all I have said is now made wrong because of this verse surely. No. There are long debates about the translations here. Is it age abiding or eternal or forever? Also, is it punishment or torment etc. I agree that the righteous will receive eternal life. What about the wicked? As I have said before, I believe that Jesus is the refiners fire. He saved the world and through Him all will be reconciled back to the Father. The wicked will be refined not punished. But I imagine it will not be a nice experience for them. God wants all His creation back.

Before I conclude this part I wanted to see if there is any scriptures that say about what happens after the judgement. Let’s have a look.

After the Judgement?

I have had a look at the Old and New Testaments to see if there is any mention of what life will be like after the judgement. Here are a few scriptures that I found.

Isaiah 11:6-12. This talks about the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard and the goat will be lying down together, children will play by the cobras hole. The earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord. Jesus will stand as a banner to the people and His resting place will be glorious. I am assuming that it’s about the time after the judgement. Isaiah 65 is similar but it talks about Jerusalem. It could be about the time after the judgement.

Here is what the New Testament says:

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.(UKJV)

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.(UKJV)

Matt 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.(UKJV)

Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when all of you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.(UKJV)

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father has appointed unto me; 22:30 That all of you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.(UKJV)

There is no marriage in heaven and we will be like the angels. We will be equal to the angels and be children of God. We will also sit with the prophets of old in the kingdom of God. Jesus said He would not drink wine until He was in His kingdom. Matt 26:29, Mark 14:25, Luke 22:18,30 some kind of celebration might happen as we eat and drink at His table. This is just a little look into what the bible says about the time after the judgement. Again this could be a study on its own.

Conclusion to Part 4 Hell. What Jesus says about His return?

What have we learnt?

God will pour our His spirit on all flesh. The wolf, lion, lamb, child and cobra will all like each other. The christians/elect will be gathered and might help Jesus when He judges. Jesus doesn’t come back in wrath as a conquering King but a gentle shepard.The rest of the world will be judged on their hearts or how they treat others. The good will go to heaven and the bad will be refined. Mal 3. All will be righteous and reconciled through Jesus. Peace will reign in heaven and on earth all will be restored and a feast will happen with Jesus and the prophets.

This section I found the hardest because of the righteous part of it. I have always been taught that you don’t get any of Jesus beneifits unless you believe and have faith. There are scriptures that support both sides of the argument. How you figure it out I think is based on how you see God?  I think Jesus made right what Adam did wrong. Now we can all be a friend of God.

Part 5: Conculsion

If you have made it this far then I am impressed. This has taken me a long time to put together and has been the result of three years of study and prayer. There are more studies which I will be putting up but I thought this should keep you going for a while.

We have seen what the world and christians believe as far as hell is concerned. We have looked at what the bible says. We have looked at how Father and Jesus feel about fire and punishment. We have seen that Jesus has done far more on the cross than we first thought. Hell is a place of sleep and comfort and trees. God is going to restore Sodom and Eygpt. Jesus warns of the 70 a.d. attack. He also says that it will not happen again. Fire is a seasoning or refinement which Jesus will do Himself. Like he does with christians today. The Book of revelation should have never made it into the bible. Jesus will return as a gentle shepard and reward the non-believers on how they treat others.

The bottom line is this, the question of Hell is not about if you can prove whether the bible supports it or not, it’s how you view God. The Hell that is taught in churhes today doesn’t paint a nice picture of God. There are many scriptures showing that God is wrathful but there are also scriptures that show Him to be a loving and gentle Father that wants to heal and look after His family.

I will end with this last scripture as it really touched my heart when I read it.

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. 11:2 As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images. 11:3 I taught Ephraim also to go, taking them by their arms; but they knew not that I healed them. 11:4 I drew them with cords of a man, with bands of love: and I was to them as they that take off the yoke on their jaws, and I laid food unto them. 11:5 He shall not return into the land of Egypt, and the Assyrian shall be his king, because they refused to return. 11:6 And the sword shall abide on his cities, and shall consume his branches, and devour them, because of their own counsels. 11:7 And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him. 11:8 How shall I give you up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver you, Israel?  how shall I make you as Admah? how shall I set you as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together. 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of you: and I will not enter into the city.(UKJV)

Ok there is some sword nasty in there which didn’t make me all teary eyed but it’s the way that God heals them, loves them and looks after them, even when they don’t know about it. There are many scriptures that show God to be a loving Father who wants to look after us and take care of us and not just christians but everyone. Verse 9 is interesting. I am God and not man. God is God. He has His own way. It is not for us to limit Him to our way of dealing with things.

God had a plan right from the start. He wanted all His creation to love Him. He made a way so that could be possible. Jesus. His death at the cross undid all that Adam and Eve did. What does that mean? God wants a realationship with all His people. He wants His spirit in ALL flesh. It’s all a matter of when you choose to have that realationship. Now or in the next life.

I hope this helps you in your journey whoever you are and whatever you believe. I am not here to offend. I just want to share what God has put on my heart. I am not looking for a long theological debate or to spend hours trying to defend what I have said. I will leave the comments open but please be respectful. This is just my opinion, it’s not gospel. For my Beliefs see my introduction post. God Bless.

Bible Versions used in this study:

(UKJV) updated king james

(BBE)   The Bible in basic english

(ASV)   American standard

(SEPT)  Sir Lancelot C.l Benton Septuagint

all bible versions where public doman when blog was published. 29.5.16.

Recommended reading:

hope beyond hell gerry beauchemin

website: http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/

Study Tools:

The blue letter bible: https://www.blueletterbible.org/

the Septuagint online: http://ecmarsh.com/lxx-kjv/malachi/mal_003.htm

The UKJV bible online: http://creationism.org/BibleUKJV/index.htm

Bible study tools website for other versions:http://www.biblestudytools.com/asv/isaiah/57.html

Quick bible app for android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=yuku.alkitab.kjv&hl=en_GB

Foot Notes:

ft1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

ft2 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hell

ft3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaria#New_Testament_References

ft4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70_CE)

ft5 http://www.ritmeyer.com/2013/07/06/evidence-for-the-destruction-of-jerusalem-in-70ad/

ft6 http://www.kingdomherald.ro/theocratic_school/5/gehenna–a-place-of-eternal-punishment.html

ft7 http://www.bible-researcher.com/antilegomena.html

ft8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation

Thanks to my mum for all her help with the editing. Thanks Mum.